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The original was posted on /r/bestofredditorupdates by /u/Choice_Evidence1983 on 2024-05-07 06:02:04.
I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/TA031544
Originally posted to r/AITAH
AITA for Expecting Sex on a Date Night with my Wife?
Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability
Trigger Warnings: emotional affair, infidelity, depression, verbal abuse, betrayal
Original Post: March 31, 2024
My wife and I generally have a great relationship. Last night, however, I learned from my wife that she has been on a sex strike for most of the last month due to some comments I made following our last date night (which was about a month ago).
As background, I arrange a date night each month for the two of us. I plan a dinner somewhere nice, arrange a babysitter, feed our three kids dinner, and otherwise handle all of the logistics so that all she has to do is show up. Typically, we will grab drinks somewhere after dinner (sometimes meeting up with friends for the drinks portion, and other times going just the two of us).
Earlier this month, I planned an evening out and we had a fantastic dinner together. After dinner, I proposed that we go to a nearby wine bar, but my wife (who had been texting with the wife of a couple we are close friends with), asked if we could go meet up with them for drinks instead. I was fine with that, so we headed towards a nearby bar that they had proposed. However, the other couple’s dinner ran later than ours, and by the time it ended, the wife was tired and decided she wanted to go to bed. As such, her husband ended up taking her home and then joining us at the local bar they had proposed.
Around 11:45 we had to leave to relieve our babysitter. My wife was having fun and didn’t want the evening to end, so she invited our friend over for another drink. I told her I was fine with that, but that I was hoping to be in bed by 1:00 a.m. (as background, I do the morning shift with our three kids every day and they get up early). My wife promised that we’d be in bed by then.
Our friend came over, we opened a bottle of wine, put on some music, and we’re all having a good time. 1:00 comes around and he gets up to go, but my wife tells us we can’t leave, as she is vibing. I stick around for another 10 minutes or so and then decide to call it, as I was getting pretty tired. My wife tells me she will be up in another 10 minutes. I get ready for bed (which takes about that long) and don’t hear her coming, so I go to bed.
Around 3:00, I get woken up by her coming into our bedroom (she was drunk at this point and made a lot of noise). I’m now wide awake, and if that happens, it usually takes me a while to go back to sleep (in this case, it took me until around 5:00, which was fun when the kids woke up at 6:30). Anyways, at this point, since I’m now wide awake, I ask her if she’d want to have sex (probably not the most romantic, I know). She declines, as she is tired and wants to go to sleep. Fair enough, I don’t push the issue, and and she immediately falls asleep.
However, I can’t sleep now due to being woken up, and sit there and stew for a few hours (mostly frustrated at being woken up but also annoyed at how the evening went overall). My first mistake was sending her a text (while she is asleep) saying that her actions that evening were hurtful and that it felt like I planned this nice evening, only for her to end up spending the later part of it with someone else (and not like that - I am 100% confident they were just listening to music and chatting).
The next morning, she came downstairs apologetic. However, I made the mistake of mentioning that her actions made me not really want to plan these extravagant date nights anymore, as she had broken her promise about going to bed at a reasonable hour and then ruined my sleep (not the first time this has happened on a date night). Then (and this is where I may be the asshole), I added that this was at least the fourth date night in a row where the night had ended with us not having sex, and that in my mind, a good date night ends in sex. I also added that this one was particularly offensive because it felt like she abandoned me at the end of the night.
These comments really upset her, and she said they made her feel like I only appreciate her for sex. She added that date nights should be about having fun and enjoying her company, and that I should assume we won’t have sex on date nights. Honestly, I have some sympathy for her perspective about enjoying each other’s company being the most important part of a date night, but I also don’t think it is unreasonable to feel a little let down after planning a romantic evening, especially since it had become a pattern, and particularly where she effectively choose to do something else rather than have sex with me. So Reddit, what do we think? AITA?
Updates: Well, this surprisingly took off. A few responses to commonly asked questions:
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Why involve friends on date night? Because she asked - it wasn’t what I had planned, but I do try to make her happy.
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How often do we normally have sex? 2-3 times a week, which is honestly pretty good for having three young children, although the distribution tends to be a little uneven (i.e. we might have it 5 times one week and then only once the next). I also try to be a generous partner, and almost always try to get her off first (unless she just asks for a quickie).
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How did I not notice the sex strike that was going on for almost a month? I intentionally took a week off from initiating in an effort to show I wasn’t just about sex, and then I caught a severe case of COVID at the end of that week, and then she got her period, and then we went on a trip (where sex is hard with small kids). So even if she hadn’t been intentionally withholding, there wouldn’t really have been an opportunity for it. Just a really unfortunate series of events that happened one after the other. We also did slip in a couple of sessions in there where she initiated (in what she called “moments of weakness”) - frankly, we both like sex, but she is sometimes willing to hurt/penalize herself to prove a point. Also, we’ve had 4 or 5 stretches in the past where we have gone many months without sex due to childbirth / major surgery / depression. I do truly care for my wife, and I’m willing to play the long game.
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Why are you not worried about your wife being with a male friend late at night? We’re very close to this couple, and they are probably over at our house at least once a week. The husband in particular is close friends with both me and my wife. His wife works very early in the morning, so she pretty much always goes to bed very early. As such, he is often left alone at night, and he frequently ends up at our place (where we play drink, play board games or cards, listen to music, play guitars, etc.). It is not at all unusual for him to come over and stay late at our place, as my wife and I stay up much later than his wife. It was only weird (and frustrating) because my wife invited him over on a date night. Our friend is also a really solid guy - he’s probably the safest person I could think of to hang out with my wife who is a guy. I know the optics aren’t great and that if I were a third party I’d probably think something shady is going on - just knowing the people involved, it’s not something I am concerned about. I’m confident our friend intended to come over for just a drink - he did in fact try to leave, and he had even called an uber - my wife grabbed his phone and cancelled it. And I do think they did just lose track of time. We had a brief power outage the day before so our living room clock was not working.
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What happened on the other three dates? On one, we had met up with a large group of friends at a bar after dinner and we were all having fun. Unfortunately, one of us had to relieve the babysitter. I kindly offered to go home and let her stay out with the crew (many of our friends stay out late - most have family or a full-time nanny that can do overnights). She ended up staying out until after 3:00 and was blackout when she got back, so I helped her get into bed and called it a night. On another, we got into an argument over something stupid at dinner and it killed the mood. On the third, she just was very tired by the time we got home and wanted to go to sleep (which is totally valid - I didn’t complain or push it). This wasn’t really a pattern of any specific behavior on her part - I was more just frustrated that circumstances seemed to always conspire to prevent the ideal date night from occurring, and this one being foiled was definitely her fault.
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Why did your wife stay up so late? My wife is a bit of a night owl. Her ideal schedule is probably to stay up until 12 or 1 and then sleep in until 9. And on the weekend when she is having fun, she would easily stay up until 2 or 3. This is something that we have argued about in the past, as once she gets going she doesn’t like to stop (which she admits isn’t the best), which always leaves me needing to be the responsible one. I’ve told her in the past that I’d gladly stay up until 3:00 with her if she agrees to do the morning shift the next day, but she has always declined on the basis of that not being enough sleep.
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How is your division of labor? I work a high pay, long hours job, and my wife is a SAHM. When I’m at…
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How is your division of labor? I work a high pay, long hours job, and my wife is a SAHM. When I’m at work I’m obviously gone and she takes care of the kids. When I’m not working, I probably do 60% of the household labor and she does 40% - I try to do the heavy lifting with the kids when I’m home because taking care of three young kids is exhausting, and I know she appreciates the break. In particular, I do the morning shift, which we both view as the worst one. She is definitely appreciative of all the household labor I do, and has stated she recognizes that I do more than any of our male friends.
Is your wife a good mom? She’s a fantastic mom - really, truly fantastic. She puts in a ton of effort making our kids’ lives fun and full of whimsy. She’s all their friends’ favorite mom since she’s fun and cares about them. She goes 100% when taking care of the kids, which I think is why she sometimes parties perhaps too late and doesn’t want the night to end, as taking care of kids really is draining, especially if you go max effort.
How is your relationship otherwise? We both do thoughtful things for one another. I make her coffee every morning and leave a note for her next to the mug. She helps my mom with tech support (which is a true act of love - I did it for years and hated it). I buy her flowers about once a week and will randomly surprise her with small gifts. She will buy me less frequent (but larger and more thoughtful) gifts. If you take sex out of the equation, the relationship is great (and until a few weeks ago I would have told you that was great too).
Are you an unreliable narrator? I hope not? I think if you asked my wife what happened, she would agree with essentially everything I’ve said. I think she would probably just add some additional background information, the big one being that we have had arguments about sex in the past. We had a bad argument about 9 months ago that led to about a month-long hiatus after I complained to her that we never had sex while on vacation (and we probably take 10 or so trips a year, although many of them are just for long weekends). Her view was that we usually have kids in a room directly adjacent to us (and often other adults, since we typically do an AirBnB with friends or go to a friends’ vacation home), and that she would be mortified if our kids or friends heard us. It’s honestly a valid point, and she convinced me of it (I stopped trying on vacation unless she initiates (which she still does periodically)), but she did feel that I was ungrateful in light of all the normal sex we were having, and that she needed to reset expectations so that sex was special rather than a usual occurrence. I get the sense that her current sex strike is essentially the same thing.
Is this fake? Unfortunately, no. I’m very much a real human. Beep boop beep boop.
Update: We had a great discussion last night (and some great sex) and are fully reconciled. I apologized for making her feel like I was primarily valuing her for providing sex (it’s not true, but my comments made her feel that way) and not appreciating how much sex we were already having. She apologized for ruining the last date night. She spoke to her sister about it yesterday and her sister told her inviting someone else over on your date night was really stupid.
So in the future, she said she wants date nights to be just the two of us - we can do meet ups with others on other days. This was what I was going to ask for but she beat me to it. I also promised not to complain about sex (even where, like in this case, it was not the primary complaint but part of a larger complaint) and not to send grumpy texts while she is sleeping (and instead just talk to her in the morning). So communication wins again!
TLDR: I planned a nice date night. We ended up meeting up with friends after dinner, my wife invited one of the friends back to our place to keep partying, and when I tried to end the evening, told me to go to bed and kept partying with the friend before coming up at 3:00 and drunkenly waking me up.
We got into a fight over this the next morning, and I told her it was hurtful that on a date night she decided to hang out with a friend to finish the night rather than come to bed with me, and that a date night should ideally end in us having sex, not hanging out with others. This did not go over well, as it made her feel that I was only valuing her for sex, and that I was ungrateful for how much sex we do have (which is admittedly a lot for a married couple with small children).
AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP received mixed reactions
Update Apr 26, 2024
Whelp, I posted about a month ago about how I was upset my wife invited our friends back over to our house at the end of a date night, and she and the husband ended up hanging out until 3:00 a.m. after I went to bed at 1:00. A lot of people suggested they were having an affair, and that I was blind to not see it. I swore and swore there was no way, I trust both of them, etc…
Turns out, Reddit was right. I was unpacking the car and my wife had left her phone in there, and when I picked it up a text from our friend flashed across saying how he wanted to kiss her and asking her to tell me she needed a night out and should go out to the bar with him.
I know its an invasion of privacy, but we know one another’s passcodes, so I opened her phone and checked their text chain. She had been deleting his messages but they were still in the deleted messages folder, and it wasn’t great. They’ve been going on dates during the day when I’m at work, and he has said very suggestive things to her. I confronted my wife about it and she claimed it was purely an emotional affair, that she knew he loved her, and enjoyed the attention, and that she had been dealing with severe depression (which is true) and it was nice to have someone to talk to who wasn’t me.
That she still loved me - it was just very flattering to have the attention. I don’t know whether that is all true or not, but I honestly do think she is telling the truth - she pretty much argued it wasn’t that big of a deal because they didn’t do anything physical outside of him kissing her once, and in her defense the suggestive texts all came from him. So I don’t know where we will end up - just reality shattering because I would have never thought either would betray me like this.
TLDR: Reddit was right - they were having an affair.
Relevant Comments
OOP on how long the affair might have been going on between his wife and their friend
OOP: I think it had only been going on for a couple of months. In retrospect there were a number of signs, but I brushed them off. The only one that had really raised any alarm bells was when she washed a piece of lingerie that she hadn’t worn for me in like 4 months, which raised the question of why she was doing that. I actually made a joke question about it and she mentioned she had thrown it at the hamper months ago and it had fallen behind (which honestly could be true). But now I’m thinking that wasn’t the case.
Update #2 - April 30, 2024
This is an update to my prior update post at: Update: AITA for Expecting Sex on a Date Night with my Wife? : r/AITAH (reddit.com)
I had a true heart to heart with my wife two days after I learned of the emotional affair, and we are surprisingly in a really good place now. She apologized profusely, and her description and timeline of events is not as bad as I had feared. It is also consistent with what my former friend (we’ll call him Rick) told me when I interrogated him (and I asked him first, before my wife would have really had a chance to collaborate on a story in the event she wanted to do so). It is also consistent with what my wife’s sister has told me (she views me like a brother and is a true ally).
As backstory, Rick and his wife have been going through marital issues for quite some time. We were aware of this. About 6 months ago, things really went into a tailspin, and he started talking to my wife almost as a therapist (I know this sounds weird but my wife is really good at listening to people’s troubles and providing insight - she does this for a bunch of friends (admittedly essentially all women)). It started out like once a week or so, and gradually increased from there.
By a couple of months ago, they were talking regularly (i.e. several times a week), but still only covering totally P.C. topics. My wife’s sister actually confronted my wife and warned her that she thought Rick had fallen for her and that she needed to be careful. My wife was convinced that they were just good friends.
The night of the infamous date night was actually still in this period - my wife admitted that the optics looked bad, but she really was just having a good time (and was frankly pretty drunk and not thinking clearly). She did say though that after that night she realized that he might have feelings for her (and that in retrospect it was pretty obvious). She felt bad about the date night fiasco, and has been much better in that regard (and she also reduced her alcohol consumption).
About 6 weeks ago, we went on a ski trip with 5 other families (including Rick and his wife). It was a horrible trip for him, and he and his wife fought a lot. One of the nights, he got pretty drunk and asked my wife to meet him at the bar at our hotel, since he needed to talk. While there, he told her that he loved her and wished that he had married her rather than his wife. My wife just told him “I’m sorry”. I had been putting the kids to bed when this went down and came down and inadvertently interrupted them right after they said this (I do remember some weird vibes in retrospect).
My wife admitted she should have told me right then and there, but that she didn’t want to blow up the trip for the whole friend group, as if she told me she was worried that I might make a scene. He then didn’t say anything problematic for another week or two, and she chalked it up to him just being really drunk and really sad, and hoped things could just go back to normal.
Unfortunately, Rick’s marriage took a turn for the worse about a month ago, and it seems pretty clear that they are getting divorced. My wife (who suffers from severe depression) also went into a depressive period around this time, in large part due some familial issues. This was timed very poorly, as I recently launched a new division at my company and have been working 60 hour week for the last three months or so.
Both Rick and my wife felt isolated and lonely, and Rick started calling my wife virtually every day. They also started grabbing lunch once or twice a week (I guess he would meet her for lunch on his lunch break). The vast majority of their interaction was them talking about life, but he started saying inappropriate things in person like “you’re the most beautiful woman I know” or “you’re gorgeous”. He also started drinking heavily, and he would send suggestive texts when drinking (which my wife claims she would just ignore). The time he kissed her I was actually home - the three of us had been hanging out and I went to use the restroom.
I asked her why she didn’t tell me or shut things down, and she admitted it was a mixture of not wanting to blow up our friend group plus her enjoying the attention and compliments, even if she had no interest in the guy. She chuckled a little bit when I asked if she had slept with him (for reference, R is probably 150+ pounds overweight, which is one of the major strains in his marriage, whereas my wife is a true 10/10). Basically, she was depressed, needed someone to talk to, and since I was so busy with work, she found that emotional support elsewhere. She admits that it was really wrong, and has agreed to take a bunch of actions to prevent this in the future.
For me, I still struggle with why she would do some of this - e.g. if he texts that you should come over and join him in the shower, and you respond why don’t we do a lunch date instead, from my view that is pouring gasoline on a fire (by showing you still want to meet with him), whereas she thought she was steering things away from problematic situations (something shady can’t happen in a public setting). She said he came by the house a couple of times during the day (including once when our son was home with her), but that she really tried to steer things to public settings once she knew he loved her. It also does hurt a bit that in one of the texts R asked if they could do a lunch date and she says no, my husband (me) is working from home today, with a sad face.
But we’re going to make it work. We are going to do couples therapy and she wants to do individual therapy, and she also started working part-time to keep her busy on something else. We can’t go fully non-contact with R, but now all communication has to include me. I am also going to work on being more emotionally present, even when working a ton, and I told her that if she is having a depressive episode and needs to talk to someone, she can always call me - her mental well-being is more important than my work (she was afraid to call during the day since I am very busy and would call R instead). I also promised to work on being happier and more positive - I am usually a very cheerful person (which is something she loved about me), but I had been pretty grumpy and miserable over the last few months due to my job being crazy. So a little blame does rest with me (I’m certainly not perfect, although I’d never cheat on my partner).
I know most of you will probably roll your eyes and say I’m being a push-over, but none of you know how amazing my wife is. She has a magnetic personality and is the life of a party. She is also one of the brilliant people I have ever met. Shes a great mom, and my best friend. And finally, she’s a bombshell - when she is dolled up, most heads turn when she enters a room. If you’ve ever seen Wedding Crashers, she is (in both personality and appearance) eerily similar to Isla Fisher’s character (although she is better looking than Isla). I honestly can’t blame R for falling for her - but I can blame him (and call him a piece of shit) for acting on it.
Dumb? Maybe. But my wife is too amazing to let go over this without a fight, especially when she seems committed to fixing things (and actually apologetic - including for getting defensive the night I discovered it).
I’ll do an update in a few months. Hopefully things will be positive.
TLDR: The affair wasn’t as bad as I thought, and we’re going to work through things.
DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7 THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP
I know most of you will probably roll your eyes and say I’m being a push-over
Yyyyyyyyep
