**I am not The OOP, OOP is u/tokengirlengineer** **AITA for saying at a recruiting event, that I am trotted out as the token 'girl engineer' for...
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I am not The OOP, OOP is u/tokengirlengineer

AITA for saying at a recruiting event, that I am trotted out as the token ‘girl engineer’ for every recruiting event?

Originally posted to r/AmItheAsshole

Thanks to u/toketsupuurin and u/Choice_Evidence1983 for help with the comments

TRIGGER WARNING: Sexism, mentions of sexual harassment and misogyny, hostile workplace

Original Post March 8, 2022

I work at a tech company. I’m one of two women in a technical role, and the other is very introverted and wouldn’t be great at recruiting. So every time there’s a recruiting event, I get volun-told for it. It was especially frustrating and for me because my whole team is under crunch time and a day I spend recruiting is a day I have to make up later.

I was at a recruiting event at a local college, and a young woman who was thinking of applying asked how the diversity at my company was, it looked good from our panel and promotional materials. (Side note… Almost every person of color, woman, or queer presenting person on the promo materials has either quit or never worked there in the first place)

I answered honestly in front of a small group "Well, there are two women in technical roles, and as one of them it sometimes feels like working two jobs. One as an engineer, and one as the ‘token girl engineer’ who gets pulled away from work for every photo op, or recruiting event. Honestly, if you like being a trailblazer and are prepared to take on the extra unspoken PR as the "girl engineer’, you might find a role here fulfilling, but if you prefer keeping your head down to focus on the technical side, it is easier to do that at a company where there is more gender and racial diversity.

She appreciated my honestly but the manager who was running the event told me to leave. I have a meeting with HR and my manager tomorrow. I don’t think my opinion will be any news to them as I’ve already told them I’m not interested in being assigned to photo ops or recruiting disproportionately because of my gender, and I’ve been told that it’s “important” for me to be there to help recruit a more diverse staff since the company is trying to improve.

I feel like they’re mad that I said the quiet part out loud at the recruiting event… But it was a honest answer to the question, and I keep on being brought to these things for my “unique perspective” and whatnot.

I think they might also see themselves as doing something good, trying to do outreach to a more diverse applicant pool, and see me as ruining that.

AITA for what I said about my job?

VERDICT: NOT THE ASSHOLE

OOP Updated the Next Day- March 9, 2022/Same Post

—(UPADTE AFTER THE MEETING)—

Edit - I had the meeting. I recorded it with their consent even though that was hard to come to an agreement on.

I basically said that as I understood it, they had asked me to recruit because they want more female applicants and felt I could help recruit in a way the men on the team wouldn’t. And that they wanted me there to share my unique perspective as a woman in the feild, is that correct?

My manager and HR confirmed that.

I said that that role is often referred to as a “trailblazer” but is also often referred to as a “token” of a certain gender or race. But either way, the role was to publicly present the diversity of the company. And as I understood it, that was a part of my role, as mandated by management. To assist them in recruiting other women.

I said I was asked about my experience by a potential applicant, and I answered in what I felt was a honest way. Saying

  • There are two women here
  • I feel that on top of a technical role, my role here as a woman is to be a trailblazer or token for other women.
  • If that dual role appeals to you, this would be a good fit. If a purely technical role appeals to you, this may not be a good fit.

I see this as similar to how other recruiters say “this is a very fast paced role, if you enjoy that role you would be a good fit but if you do not, you may not be.” And I was wondering why I had been called to meet when other employees who had described the role and the sort of person they want to fill the role, have not been.

The HR guy said that “token” was often seen as having a negative connotation and I was deterring applicants

I said that “fast paced” is also seen as negative to people with outside obligations, for example. And I didn’t understand why being frank about the nature of my role was a problem. In fact, recruiters are often encouraged to be frank to attract candidates who are genuinely good matches. It would help attract the sort of woman who would like to be a “token female engineer” and deter the type of woman who would not.

My manager got frustrated and raised his voice to say “NOBODY WANTS TO BE A TOKEN!” And honestly I just looked at him with a “no shit” face but said “That doesn’t really track with your previous comments, you’ve frequently said that I should be proud to represent the company, and that I am much needed at these events. It sounded like you see it as an admirable and much appreciated role.”

He said I was being “a smartass” and I said "I apologize but I’m frustrated by a number of the contradictions in the messaging around this role. That I should be frank about the job expectations to recruit good fitting candidates, however I should not be frank about my personal job expectations? Despite never having that been communicated to me?

Hearing that I should be proud and happy to represent the company as a female engineer to attract other women? But then hearing that nobody wants to be in my shoes and that if I describe my role I will deter applicants?

To hear that the company is making efforts towards diversity, however that effort doesn’t seem to continue to retention, as this year, four female employees quit, two were hired and then rapidly quit… This is a retention rate far lower than average.

I’m frankly confused by what my role in this company is. Do you want an engineer or do you want a token?

My manager snapped at me and said that I am an engineer. I said “I would like my job duties to reflect that”

The HR guy said that I wouldn’t be permitted to publicly represent the company anymore. I said okay. (Very not mad at that…)

So… I feel like my manager is pissed off, but I’m well along in the interview process with several other companies. So hopefully that won’t be a problem anymore. I’m not quitting till I have a new offer signed but I’m not too concerned if I get fired and get unemployment

RELEVANT COMMENTS

roadsidechicory

If they’re trying to recruit more diverse staff, why are you still the only woman they employ that they can ask? They should have more diversity on their staff by now if they were genuine in their intention. It sounds like you’re just there for show.

OOP

Nearly all of the other women quit, in my 7 months here I’ve seen 4 previous female employees quit, two women get hire and rapidly quit, and only one other woman get hired recently who’s still here.

DoubleOxer1

I already have a good idea why but have any of them explicitly told you why they are unhappy there? What exactly are they dealing with that making them all leave? Which people on the team are causing the most grief to these women? I’m just curious now because if the problem can be solved by weeding out the most toxic people first they may be able to retain the women who actually show up in the first place. Idk what to tell you.

OOP

Sexism, sexual harassment, and for women who are also Black or lgbt, racism and homophobia.

Unfortunately the management is the largest perpetrator, the people on our level are pretty chill.

~

KeepLkingForIntllgnce

So I’m curious. How do they make you go!??

Really - just wondering. If you are told event x is on Monday and you communicate in an email that you will not be attending and then go to work on Monday - what happens!??

OOP

Day to day my manager handles my tasking, what he wants me working on. I’ve gone to him before those days and said that I want to stick to engineering work and he holds a raise that my company has been promising over my head.

~

JuniorDingo

There is also data that shows women are way more likely to leave engineering jobs because of feeling isolated, etc. If the company isn’t focused on retaining the employees they have that are women, recruiting new ones isn’t going to be much help. It might just create more turnover… Which gets expensive.

I don’t think what OP said was even bad. Some people really enjoy being trailblazers and might enjoy going to a ton of recruiting events. Some people do not. I don’t think she phrased it unprofessionally.

I know for me, when I started my job in academia I was coming into a depar…

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1li73r9/aita_for_saying_at_a_recruiting_event_that_i_am/

  • Spacehooks@reddthat.comMEnglish
    1·
    2 days ago

    JuniorDingo

    There is also data that shows women are way more likely to leave engineering jobs because of feeling isolated, etc. If the company isn’t focused on retaining the employees they have that are women, recruiting new ones isn’t going to be much help. It might just create more turnover… Which gets expensive.

    I don’t think what OP said was even bad. Some people really enjoy being trailblazers and might enjoy going to a ton of recruiting events. Some people do not. I don’t think she phrased it unprofessionally.

    I know for me, when I started my job in academia I was coming into a department that had a very high median age. As one of the few young people, I knew I would have to do certain things that people near retirement would not be interested in doing. One of those things is working on hiring new people. I really don’t mind it at all. Yet, I wouldn’t blame someone for not really wanting to be involved since it is a lot of work.

    OP, NTA

    OOP

    That’s a part of it too. When I was first hired it was hyped up that I’d be working on a team with four other women. Two quit in my first week. The third quit in my second week. The fourth quit after a month. I’ve been in touch with some of them and they had good reasons to leave.

    My one female coworker was hired just 2 months ago and honestly seemed to not know what she was getting herself into.

    ~

    ginsengtea3

    what percentage of the leadership determining how to best recruit “diversity” is actually a member of any of the demographics they’re trying to attract?

    (NTA)

    OOP

    0%

    ~

    Raptor1988

    There are women who go above and beyond to encourage other women to get into STEM fields. It’s ok if that’s not your passion, and it’s ok to speak out against the hypocrisy. If they are touting you as a spokesperson, make it known that the time you spend playing catch up will be overtime, or handled by a male team member who isn’t forced to parade his chromosomal makeup at every event. NTA

    OOP

    I honestly was one of those little girls who was convinced by that kind of “girl power!! You can do anything!! You can do math and science!” Corporate messaging.

    And I really wish, that at 16 or 17, when I was going to apply to an engineering college… Someone sat me down and told me “Hey, the technical stuff is the easy part of the job. The harassment, sexism, unequal treatment, men who think you’re there as a fuck toy for the management and not a real engineer… That’s the hard part. Sure they told you you can do math, and they were right… But you should know it’s not the math most women in your field are struggling with, it’s the management.”

    I might have still gone into STEM. But I think I would have been a lot more prepared for what I was getting into, rather than than the cutesy “science barbie” ideal.

    OOP on why many woman have quit

    I know why women were quitting, I’ve befriended the 6 women who quit in the last 7 months. It’s sexism, harassment, and for the women who are also queer or POC, the racism and homophobia.

    I think HR is well aware, since everyone I know who quit had plenty to say at the exit interview

    OOP’s reply to a deleted commenter about her evidence

    Would chat logs where I said I don’t want to be picked as the recruiting person when my male coworkers aren’t, and my boss saying that it is important to have diversity in the recruiting group to bring in young talent work for that possibly? Because I have that in writing…

    And OOP’s job description

    My job description is Electrical Engineer and the role, as written, is purely technical

    A lot of lawyers in the comments answered with similar advice

    AshTreex3

    I’m an employment lawyer but I’m not your lawyer and this isn’t legal advice.

    It might be worth a consultation. It’d be helpful to save any materials where you explicitly note being singled out for your gender and how it is adversely impacting you and your work.

    OOP on how bad she is recruiting

    I’m honestly really bad at it, half the time people asked me questions about the company I would just be like “i really don’t know, I’ve just been focused on one small part of one project… Let me get (other person)” lol

    THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

    DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP’s OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7