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The original was posted on /r/exmormon by /u/Ur-Fave-Skeptic on 2025-10-06 20:34:15+00:00.
Original Title: I just had a unique new encounter from a LDS apologist online about racism in the BoM (and that of the Living Prophets). He claimed nowhere in the BoM does it refer to “dark skin tones”, but rather tattoos, or in some passages it should be understood metaphorically when it says “skins of darkness”.
Question for everyone. I just had a unique experience that is a new one. Just wondering your thoughts on this:
I quoted the following verses demonstrating there is racism in the Book of Mormon because skins of darkness are considered a curse from God versus being white is better.
1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary): “She was exceedingly fair and white.”
1 Nephi 12:23 (prophecy of the Lamanites): “Became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.”
1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles): “They were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain.”
2 Nephi 5:21: “A sore cursing … as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”
2 Nephi 30:6 (prophecy to the Lamanites if they repented): “Scales of darkness shall begin to fall … they shall be a white and delightsome people” (“white and delightsome” was changed to “pure and delightsome” in 1981).
Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed): “Whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins.”
Jacob 3:8-9: “Their skins will be whiter than yours … revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins.”
Alma 3:6: “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion.”
Alma 3:9: “Whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.”
Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed): “Set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed.”
Alma 23:18: “[Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them.”
3 Nephi 2:14-16: “Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites and … became exceedingly fair.”
3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples): “They were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness … nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof … and behold they were white, even as Jesus.”
Mormon 5:15 (prophecy about the Lamanites): “For this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us.”
The LDS Church also follows other scriptures, such as “The Pearl of Great Price”. Here’s a few gems from that one too:
Moses 7:8: “A blackness came upon all the children of Canaan.”
Moses 7:12: “Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were [i.e., except] the people of Canaan, to repent.”
Moses 7:22: “For the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them.”
G.D. Watt reported what Brigham Young (the second living prophet of the main LDS branch of faith) preached at the Tabernacle in Great Salt Lake City on March 8th, 1863. This can be found in Journal of Discourses Vol. 10, page 110:
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”
Okay, so here was how the apologist responds to this:
- None of those verses are referring to skin tone. Those verses are referring to tattoos and should be understood metaphorically. In other words, every single verse I quoted above, where it says skin, is not referring to skin color.
- The quote from B.Y. is wrong, Journal of Discourses has errors and is not reliable, and it’s not canon.
- Joseph Smith Junior ordained two black persons to the priesthood, and never said anything negative about black people, therefore the racist views of the early LDS church did not come from scripture or Joseph Smith, but purely from Brigham Young.
I feel like I was just jedi-mindtricked with some next level gaslighting.
I then quoted a quote from History of the Church by Joseph Smith about black people should not mixed with white people, and he said History of the Church is also not accurate and that quote was wrongly added by Brigham Young.
Anyone else familiar with this approach for apologists?
I mean Alma 3:6 literally says “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion.”
In this verse it says “mark set upon fathers”, “curse”, and then as a result Lamanites had “skins that were dark”.
But he is insisting me there is no way this refers to dark skin tone. It’s about tattoos. Either that or to be taken metaphorically, not literally. (Depending upon which verse above we want to address).
Can anyone else shed some light on this?