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The original was posted on /r/monero by /u/Spirited-Tonight-392 on 2025-10-09 02:00:44+00:00.

Just to be clear, I *really* like Bitcoin i have been studying it for a few years and I own a little. I think it has many great qualities… but something is missing.

Maybe it’s the simplicity, the ease of use, the culture, and most importantly the privacy [or lack thereof]… I have used Bitcoin in different places, both on-chain and via Lightning and *when Lightning works* it works really well. But holy hell can it be complicated. What I, and some other ‘bitcoiners’ (if such a term actually means anything anymore) worry about is the centralization of “layer 2s” on Bitcoin. The current situation in some ways is all kinds of messed up, and I worry we are missing the forest-for-the-trees.

I have been ‘lurking’ the Monero subreddit for quite some time… never posting in fact this is a ‘burner’ account I won’t keep… and I don’t use Reddit in any way. But Monero is so hard to get information about and it appears there are some ‘conflicts of interest’ in the Bitcoin community that… don’t make sense.

Many of the ‘Bitcoiners’ (not just on the Bitcoin sub) but elsewhere especially twitter *even* NOSTR talk about Bitcoin in a way which makes me think they never use it. Or use it sparingly. Or are more interested in the ‘number-go-up’ rather than the ‘freedom-go-up’… because actions speak louder than words.

Currently (for those of you who don’t know) there is some kind of mini-crisis going on with regards to ‘arbitrary data’ in Bitcoin I mean give me a ******* break. People who *really* want to use money privately will pay what is needed to use it, they will seek it out, the flower does not need to convince the bee that it is ripe for pollination… The bee just *comes* because the flower is sweet.

"A flower does not chase the bee. It blossoms and the bee comes…”

In fact I am convinced that some *if not many* of the ‘loudest voices’ in Bitcoin never actually *use* Bitcoin, don’t know how to use it privately, and aren’t aware or *don’t care* about its shortcomings NOT BECAUSE Bitcoin doesn’t have SOME great qualities… but because we are being psy-oped.

Bitcoin cannot and should not be ‘surveillance tech’ for the state, for big corporations, and for internet gateways it should be *freedom money* for individuals, journalists, political dissidents, and those afraid of the state and in that role I believe it is failing. Only a few months ago, Bitcoin was ‘trading’ at 100k USD with almost *zero* transactions in blocks we’re talking *EMPTY* blocks on a *weekday* evening. What kind of ‘revolutionary money’ or ‘freedom money’ doesn’t get used or clearly isn’t ACTUALLY needed?

What is going on here?

Furthermore, the tools on Bitcoin - coinjoins, Lightning channels, swaps etc are *complicated*. How are we supposed to onboard journalists and suppressed peoples around the world, people who would be CRUSHED by their own governments, if all we can do is onboard them to f****** custodial Bitcoin? Or *worse* custodial Lightning? It makes no sense.

The problems, both technical and educational, I believe we cannot even broach talking about because some of the people in the ‘community’ are more interested in ‘drama’ than use. It’s number-go-up and personalities rather than good engineering, and a honest assessment of ‘where to go from here’ is *rare*.

Even more confusingly, Bitcoin as a medium-of-exchange (and ALL cryptocurrencies except StAbLe-CoInS) are defacto banned by the state. We (some of us) look to the day that Bitcoin is used as ‘money’, ie in transactions, supplanting or off-setting the control exercised by central banks… but how do we get there with widespread tracking, taxing, zero on-chain privacy, and practical surveillance of Layer 1? YES the tools exist but most people will have a hard time using them (probably) because they are complicated even for relative veterans/enthusiasts of the software.

If I give a friend (much less a coworker) Bob a utxo (let’s say worth 100$) for some furniture or a TV, I don’t want Bob knowing or figuring out my *entire financial history* from that ONE transaction. YES if I coinjoin and Bob coinjoins and Bob understands coin-control and so-on-and-so-forth then YES it can be a privacy preserving experience for both of us, but that requires additional software that most people probably can’t figure how to interact with or use. The use of widespread Lightning would help here of course… but we are not there yet. In fact the most recent IMPROVED “wallet of Satoshi” now “non-custodial” reveals your ENTIRE payment HISTORY AND balance to anyone you provide a payment/public key to.

This is NUTS.

And this is supposed to be ‘freedom-money’? Really?

I’m not an expert and I don’t pretend to be, and I won’t lie I have my reservations about Monero.

Where is it actually used?

How liquid is it really?

Is it going to ‘hard-fork’ when I’m not looking? Is it scalable?

And finally… is it going to ‘survive’ the ‘Qubic/Pubic’ attack?

Like I said I’m no expert, but I should be able to install Debian or Ubuntu or Tails and have a *reasonably* private cash-like crypto experience out of the box… especially if I install and run the node on the computer. Somewhere somehow we have ‘lost the plot’ and I am looking for answers.

I don’t want anyone to kiss-my-ass and I don’t need hopium number-go-up bull**** I’m way, way past that. All I’m looking for is the truth.

Thanks.